1997 LHS Alarm and Electrical issues...

Hey all,

I just picked up a 1997 LHS on Saturday for next to nothing as it had a
Salvage Title. Cosmetically it's in mint+ condition and the
engine/tranny seem usable at 111k miles. It was salvaged by the
previous owner's Insurance because it was caught in flood waters. (the
water rose in the car to, apparently, just between the radio and the
HVAC judging by the waterline I found in certain areas of the car. The
carpeting and lower cushions have been replaced, the engine fluids were
all replaced, and the car sat in storage for approximately two years
with occasional trips out for "Automotive exercise" but no electrical
repairs were ever done.

What I mainly now have to deal with are those electrical issues. I've
torn apart the lower dash and all wiring is clean and sound and there
is virtually no corrosion anywhere in the vehicle. I found a couple
fuses that looked dodgy and replaced them but have gone no further,
partly because I've activated the alarm and can't seem to de-activate
it.

I hit the driver side power door lock Saturday afternoon and noticed it
didn't work so I hit the manual lock and closed the door...an hour
later came back out and unlocked the door with the key and the
headlamps started flashing, attempting to start the car caused it to
die 2 seconds later. I've tried unlocking all doors and trunk with the
key and this doesn't disable the alarm. I've unhooked the battery to no
effect... and I don't have a remote to see if it even works. Where do
I go from here to kill this d*mn alarm?

Other issues :
*The horn does not work (thankfully, given the alarm!)
*Radio itself seems to work but no actual sound is heard
*Power door switches do not work but when I activate one a clicking can
be heard from somewhere in the dashboard.
The Heat/AC blows warm air out the defrost vents only. You can control
the fan speed but can not change where the air comes out at.
*The dual power seats will move forward and backward but in no other direction.

All other electrical options seem to function fine.

I am a complete novice and would greatly appreciate any help with these
issues. I am attempting to do a few repairs myself before turning it
over to someone else.


Much thanks!

 

Yup, that's the alarm... It's possible that the vehicle didn't
originally come with the alarm, and that was "added on", or somehow
activated in the computer due to the flooding. First place I'd check would
be to see if there is an LED light mounted to the center of the dashboard.
Don't confuse the "sun sensor" with the LED light, as by the sounds of it
you have the "premium" climate control unit (Digital temp readout on it with
pushbuttons instead of 3 control knobs)? If the vehicle didn't come with
the alarm originally, using the keys in the locks will do nothing, as the
locks won't have the necessary sensors to detect the key turn.

Also, take a look in the trunk (easiest place to see). At the latch, on the
lid, there will be two wire harness connectors if the vehicle came with the
alarm, one for the power trunk release, and one for the key sensor... There
would also be a "hood switch" located somewhere under the hood. I've never
seen one, so I can't tell you where it would be located.

If it did come with the alarm system, the grounding of one of these alarm
terminals SHOULD deactivate the alarm (short the two terminals in the wiring
connector together in the trunk [Wires are Violet/Yellow and Black]). If it
doesn't, then most likely your problem will be in the BCM (Body Control
Module), which would need to be replaced. Can be found on passenger side,
lower dash, with three large wiring connectors attached to one end...

Maybe bad relay? Hear a click when pushed?

Possibly corroded speaker coils? Who knows.

Would be the relays for the door locks. Should hear clicking in either
direction. Most likely the system is functioning, just the door actuators
are rusty or corroded and won't move.

If premium unit, probably needs replacing. These go bad often, many
problems with them. Could also be linked to the BCM again, as the premium
unit is only the interface, the BCM handles all the functions and temp
control... If standard unit (3 knobs), it too may need to be replaced. Can
be had VERY cheaply on eBay...

direction.

Guess of crusty or burnt motors, but that's anyone's guess.

 

Yes, the LED is there - red - and angrily blinking at me. However, the
keys do nothing in any lock.
....and, yes, I have the "premium" climate control.

Do all these terminals go directly to the BCM or do they pass through
anything else along the way that might be at fault (like a relay)?
Assuming the BCM is at fault here... I would imagine Chrysler wants a
pretty penny (or several thousand pretty pennies rather ) for this
item. Will one from a salvage yard work in it's place (assuming it's
from a similar model year LHS)?

No, I don't seem to hear a click at all from what I can remember. Think
it might be a bad relay in the fuse box?

I remembered my '93 Imperial had a powered amp in the trunk so I pulled
back the trunk carpet in the LHS and found a similar beast. If this is
faulty, I assume it might kill all sound from the radio, correct?

Hmm, I only hear clicking in one direction - i think when I press up on
the switch. I do not hear it when pressing in the other direction.
Another bad relay, perhaps? ...and if one of the two relays were bad
would it prevent the other from working?

Okay, this interface was in contact with water and as troublesome as
they seem to be under the best of circumstances, I'll start with it.
I'll take a look on eBay and the like for a replacement.

Is there a separate motor for each control? (one for
forwards/backwards, one for height, one for seatback tilt)?

Thanks.

 

Further info:

I managed to get some computer codes using the Check Engine light.

I got a 12 (which I expected because the battery has been disconnected)
and a #66. Haynes says this means "pcm is not receiving ccd bus
signals" but that's entirely greek to me... The fact the alarm is still
active may just be aggravating matters.

John

 

Years ago, I had some problems with mine blowing hot air out the defrost
vents. I believe what you're dealing with there is the fail-safe setting. I
may be wrong, but I think what causes that is loss of communication between
the BCM and the control/display head. I replaced my control head with one
off ebay ($50) but continued to have that problem and the error code for i/o
errors until eventually I just cleaned up the connections and it worked.

There is a diagnostic mode for that HVAC that is very easy to use, but of
course you kind of need a manual to get what the codes mean.

 

Going to do my best here... My answers are based upon my '94 service
manual, however the differences between the years SHOULD be negligible...

For the most part, they go directly to the BCM. The right door switch goes
through a door connector to a splice, then to the BCM. The left door goes
through a door connector, body connector, to the same splice as right door
(splices two wires together), then to BCM. The trunk switch goes through a
body connector then to the BCM. Seems the trunk lead has it's own terminal
at the BCM connector, separate from the door leads.

Did you try to short the two leads on the trunk connector, as stated
previously, without success?

You should be able to acquire a BCM from a similar year vehicle (though I
think that it must be from either a '96 or '97 only, intrepid, LHS, Vision,
Concorde), WITH the alarm system... Only reason I say that is, if the donor
didn't have the alarm, you would have to pay Chrysler to hook it up to their
scan tool to activate that function in the computer for the alarm to work...

On a side note, if you are seriously considering getting this thing going,
you may want to check to see if the car has keyless entry capability... If
the BCM is functioning properly, the keyless entry system should definitely
disable the alarm... To find out if you have it (can't see why it wouldn't,
considering it has the alarm), pop the top front cover off the dash, near
the windshield. There are two clips on either side of the panel, then slide
back towards you. If the car has keyless entry, there will be a black box
with two wiring harness connectors coming out of the side if it, just to the
right of the center of the dash, under this panel... Should be slightly
smaller than the BCM if memory serves me correctly.

If you have the unit, once again, eBay would be a good place to get remotes
for the car. Take the model# off the sticker on top of the unit and have
you local Chrysler dealer look up what the model# of the remotes that you
need is, then buy off eBay...

While I'm thinking about it, if that unit is there, try disconnecting the
two plugs, and close all doors and see if the key sensors work this way.
Also, see if the power door locks work now or not.

**** As a last resort, you SHOULD be able to disable the alarm by directly
grounding pin #3 of the *BLACK* BCM connector. This should be a Light-Green
with Orange tracer wire according to my service manual. You will need
something thin and pointed to get into the backside of the connector. Run
this to ground. This should disable the alarm. If it does not, then there
is no helping you, as there must be something wrong with the BCM... This
lead is what comes from each key cylinder in the two doors. There is NO
reason (other than bad BCM) why this should not work...

If no click, probably bad relay... If it clicks, I'd guess corroded coils
in the horns...

You would be correct. Premium sound system... Without the amplifier
functioning, I'd assume there would be no sound. All sound signals route
through this unit before going to the individual speakers...

Perhaps. There are separate relays for locking and unlocking. Also see the
end of my long spiel above about the BCM and the keyless entry module.

There are a total of 4 motors. Front/back is a single unit. Recline (seat
back) is another, and then there are separate front and rear height
motors...

 

CCD Bus is the main communications network for the vehicle. It consists of
two wires, twisted together (a twisted pair), similar to like what you will
find in a network cable (cat-5) cable that computers use for local
networking (communication.)

The PCM is the Powertrain Control Module. This is the module under the hood
that controls all aspects of the engine. Reads and interprets the output of
all the vehicle sensors, and adjusts all the aspects of the engine for
proper performance and functioning; to put it vaguely.

Service manual states that there are three possibilities for a code 66, but
the main idea is that the PCM is not receiving any CCD Bus signals, but
without a proper scan tool, you won't know the exact problem. A scan tool
would narrow it down to, 1) not receiving at all, 2) not receiving from TCM
(Transmission Control Module), or 3) not receiving from the BCM. I'm going
to wager it's the BCM once again, but, I COULD be wrong...

 

I think signs are pointing to the BCM. Last night I took it apart and
opened it up to find water had reached the lower 3rd of the board and
there was slight corrosion and a touch of rust on one of the
components. It's impossible to say what damage there is that I CAN'T
see or test. I'm going to pick up another BCM from a local salvage
yard for $65 today and see what happens. It reportedly comes from
another 97 LHS with alarm and should be a plug and play procedure,
right?

John

 

....and your help is GREATLY appreciated in this matter.

Yup, I shorted them without success of any sort.

Thanks! I'll peek under there tonight and see what I can find.

Okay, I cut a small wire and soldered bits of paperclip to each end,
then stuck it in the slot of #3 of the black connecter running into the
BCM (LG/Or wire) and then tried stick the other end into the ground
slot on the Bone connector and various other metal surfaces and the
alarm LED continued to angrily blink away at me... So, it sounds to me
like a unanimous decision that the BCM is defective. I'll have the
replacement in about 2 hours so we shall see what happens then.


John

 

If they are the same year, and both have the alarm feature, there should be
no reason why you can't just plug it in and go... After that, I'm betting
that most if not all of your electrical problems will go away, possibly with
the only exception being the temperature control unit.

The only thing they may hinder you at this point would be if either the PCM
or the TCM were water damaged as well, but you won't know that until you can
get the beast running.

 

Maybe...maybe not.

Why not just touch up the solder on the board, change out any
suspicious looking caps and resistors with like value and give it a
shot? If you can't, perhaps and electronics-savvy pal? I did that to
my '86 EFCS II module some time ago, and it functions as new still.
Same goes for the old '70s "Lean Burn" feedback modules that people
threw away by the gross.

 

Okay, I grabbed a "new" BCM from a wrecked 97 Intrepid at the local
savage yard for $65. I plugged it in and the alarm stayed off! The #66
CCD error has, also, vanished! :grinyes: I don't actually know if the
old Intrepid had an alarm system but if it's something Chrysler can
change later then no biggie at this point.

The salvage yard, also, gave me 3 relays essentially free and I
replaced the suspicious looking ones.

So, now the alarm is off. My horn has also started working... I have an
interior "chime" suddenly that I never knew I had, as well. I drove
around the parking lot next door at around 10-15mph and the car seemed
to respond fine.

Also, I plugged the ATC/HVAC back in and it still does not function
properly. I did the ATC diagnostics test and it came back with error
codes #23,24,32 and 36. I'm going to replace the ATC unit next and see
what happens.

I do have one new issue I noticed, however, and I can't remember
whether this was the case with the old BCM BUT...

The dash lights come on as expected when you turn on the headlights.
HOWEVER, if you set the headlights control to "Auto" the dash lights do
not come on with the headlights? Any ideas on this one?

Also, I haven't tried using the power door locks again since that's
what triggered the lock out to begin with. Think it's safe???? :-D
....or should I wait until I get a remote.

John

 

Provided the BCM was identical (with the three sockets on the end), then
yes, if the alarm portion isn't active, it can be turned on later at any
Chrysler dealership. There is at least one other option that they can
toggle (there might be more, but these are the only two I am aware of) and
that is the automatic door locks. Basically, once you reach a speed of
about 10MPH, the doors automatically lock. I'm betting that your original
BCM had this activated, but that the new one (since it's out of an intrepid)
does not.

Good news so far! Did you replace the horn relay? While the horn doesn't
rely on the BCM to function, it is connected to it for use with the alarm...
Could have been the relay or the possibly the BCM creating enough of a draw
on the line to not allow the relay to activate..

There is a slight possibility that the problem lies with the actuators and
not the ATC unit, but this is pretty slim... I only say that because they
would have been under water. They are pretty simple little devices from
what I've seen. I have replaced the Recirculation actuator on my vehicle
because of a broken gear. This particular unit doesn't have the feedback
sensors in it, so it was just a small 12-Volt motor and gears. I don't know
what the insides of the feedback kind look like, so I can't say for sure if
there might be a problem there or not...

I'm not sure where you found the diagnostic procedure for the unit, but I'm
going to assume that they also included what the error codes represent, so I
won't bother listing that...

I'm not very familiar with the auto-headlamp circuit, but I will see what I
can come up with. A quick thought, when the alarm was going off (before),
were the parking & tail lights also flashing, or just the headlights? And,
when the headlamps come on using auto, do the parking/tail lights come on?
I'm betting the culprit will be another relay...

There is a park lamp relay under the dash that, if I am remembering
correctly, only comes in vehicles that have the alarm system. They may have
also come with those with the auto headlights, but I don't know for sure.
I'm not even sure of the location of this relay to tell you the truth. The
service manual says, "Left of Steering column rear of column cover". If you
find it, let me know where it is. I've got to add this to my vehicle, as
I'm attempting to install the factory alarm in my own vehicle. So far I've
got the ignition kill and the flashing headlights... No horn or park
lights...

I'm not going to give ANY advice here; I don't want to be held
accountable... Seriously though, they should function just fine, and I
can't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to now disable the alarm,
should it happen to activate...

Remote? I'm assume you found the box on top the dash? Bet your happy now!
I LOVE my keyless entry. That's one of the reasons I'm trying to add the
factory alarm function. It's a little risky, as I won't have any of the key
sensors. I'm relying completely upon the remote. Yeah, I know, not a good
idea, but I've got enough wiring to do with just getting the horn and
parking lights to work with the alarm!

 

Hi...

Murphy's law says that when you're in the middle of nowhere, in the
middle of the night, the temperature is -40 degrees, and you're 'bout
half starved is when you'll have lost your fob, or the batt's will
be dead, or when it'll have come apart and the batteries will be
gone, or.... you get the picture

Easy enough to be safe rather than sorry, though. If you're
essentially do the job yourself, then just install a switch
somewhere hidden... (inside a fender, in the air intake thingy
[where the wipers are. can't see, but can reach your hand])
and connect it to what would normally be the door key switch.

And while I have you guys, if the op discovers what's letting
the auto headlights turn on the lights, *without* turning on
the dash lights, I'd love to know. Like to do it to my own
on purpose

Take care.

Ken

 

Yup... I get it. Actually, I upgraded to the premium BCM, from the basic
unit, and the alarm is already activated in the unit, so every time I lock
the doors with the remote, the alarm is active... When I first got the BCM,
I was told that it came with the alarm active, but it didn't seem to me like
it worked. I found one night when I was goofing around that it was. I had
hit the remotes lock function (habit), despite the fact that the windows
were down. When I returned to the car, I just reached in and pulled the
handle inside to open the door (or pulled up the lock, I forget). When I
opened the door, the headlights started flashing... To say the least, I was
quite happy to find out that the alarm was active

I was considering this. I had read about this being done by others who
added the factory alarm to their vehicle... Far easier than trying to
wire-up both door locks and the trunk lock.

I have added the full-function headlight switch to mine as well. At the
time, I had no idea why the unit I received (bought off eBay) had an "A"
setting. Didn't know what it was. No that I know, I'm considering wiring
that up too. It's really simple to tell you the truth. From what I see,
it's a maximum of 3 wires. Two wires going to the "sun sensor", and a
single wire going to the headlight switch.

I had read about some adding the headlight switch with "A"uto to their
vehicle. The car already had the premium BCM, so the wire from the switch
to the BCM was present in the harness. He didn't have the sun sensor if I
remember correctly. He said that when he set it to Auto, that the dash
lights were the only thing that came on, no headlights or parking lights...
He called it his "Stealth Mode". He could see what was going on with the
dash and stuff, but nobody outside the vehicle could see him coming.
Interesting idea...

 

He he.. my little grandson figures that when we go up to the cottage
we should have the red led flashing, I should open the sunroof,
he'll stick his head out and say "whoo whoo", everyone will think
we're Mounties and get out of our way so we'll get there quicker

Someday he'll realize that his old grandpa always goes too slow
even when there's no traffic at all

Kidding aside, the sun sensor has nothing to do with the auto
headlights. That's used only for the auto temp controls, to
decide if the sun's shining on you to put all the cool air out
the dash vents, otherwise to share the cool air between the
floor and dash vents.

Your auto headlight sensor is on the backside of the rear view
mirror (you can see it only from outside the car)

Take care.

Ken

 

It seems to me the BCM must have been screwing up the horn and the
interior chimes as they were working "out of the box", so to speak,
once the BCM was replaced.

Yes, ATC error codes #23 and #24 relate to the AC doors, which I'm
assuming makes sense because it is currently non-operational and
doesn't even have a belt. #36 seems to relate to the head unit being
defective and considering it was under water, I assume will be dead. I
took it apart and ran into similar corrosion/rust as seen in the BCM,
so....I shall hunt down a replacement on eBay as no one local seems to
have one except for the dealer at $200+.

As a side note, the dealer wants $700! for the power seat motors! I can
buy a whole seat at the local salvage yard for $150 or hunt down the
motors themselves (which is probably best as these leather seats are in
rather good condition).

I'm thinking it must be another relay, as well, but I can't find which one.

When the alarm was going off before, only the headlights were flashing.
On Auto only the headlights seem to come on, too. However, the Flasher
activates all of the exterior lights so it must be a relay unrelated to
that.

There are three or four relays of some sort under the driver side dash,
tucked behind the fuse box. Sadly, my garage is rather narrow so it's
hard to work there. I have to wait until the office next door clears
out in the evening to bring the car out and tinker. It doesn't look
like any of them are label at this point, though. :-(

There is, also, a box of relays under the hood, just above the wiper
fluid bottle, IIRC, with several marked as if they pertain to lighting
systems. I don't know about the relays in that box but when I first
checked the fuses they all seemed fine. Of course any of those relays
could be defective - if I only I knew which ones to check.

Well, I was brave and pressed it. No alarm! Looks like the alarm must
be deactivated in this BCM which is just fine with me for now. When I
hit the PDL in the drivers door, only right-side passenger doors
locked/unlocked. The driver side doors don't seem to function, however,
I think this might be a localized issue to each door. I can hear the
motor spin in the left rear door, it just doesn't lock - and the driver
door itself is deathly quiet so the motor there could just be
defective. It looks like the motors would have been under water given
their location anyway.

I was going to take a door panel off but I'm a bit confused about the
armrest covers. Do those snap off in the LHS? It looked like the front
of them want to pop-up but the rear seemed rather forcibly attached.


Anyway, if you find any info on a relay that might control the
dash/rear lights when set to Auto that would be great.

Thanks,
John

 

Found it! The Park Lamp Relay is under the dash, behind/to the right
of the fuse box, sitting below the Flasher Relay. It is Black with a
yellowish connector plugging into it. There are four wires, two are
pinkish, one is a lt. blue and one is black (with a yellow stripe I
think).

Sounds to me like this is indeed the offending culprit I must replace
to get parking lamps and dash lights working with Auto headlamps.


John

 

Is it possible that your vehicle was flood damaged during the hurricanes
last year? Just seems like a lot of the electrical parts are bad ...

 

OK, a little clarification on the codes is in order...
- Code #23 indicates problems with the feedback sensor for the BLEND door.
This is what the temperature control on a standard heat/AC system would
move.
- Code #24 indicates problems with the feedback sensor for the MODE door. A
better description, for understanding purposes, would be the "position"
door. This controls where the air comes out of...
- Code #32 is a BLEND door stall failure... Not sure why this one is in
there. Makes it sound like the door was working, and then quit. It's
possible that this may have been set BEFORE the flooding ever occurred.
- Code #36 is ATC Head Communication Failure. Probably because the BCM was
bad and it couldn't communicate with it?? Guess of course. Could just be
that the whole ATC is junk.

Tell the dealer to take a hike! They can be had on eBay for a fairly
good price. Do some comparisons, as there are some that just sell them used
"in working condition", and other that sell rebuilt/repaired units that come
with a short warranty...

OUCH! Yea, if the seats are good (and don't smell from being flooded), go
with the motors. You may end up buying the whole seat anyway and stripping
the motors from in at home. I've (thankfully) never had to deal with them,
so I don't know if they detach as a whole unit, or come out separately.

Flasher, as in Hazard Flasher?

I've done some further reading, and this would be where the Park Lamp relay
is located. There are two that I have come across in the book. There is
the Hazard/Turn Signal Relay (Uses one relay for both somehow) and the Park
Lamp relay. I take that back... It's called a "Combination Flasher". I
guess it's not a relay for the hazards, but it does say that "the
combo-flasher is BLACK in color for ease of identification." Yea, sure,
aren't the relays black as well??

If there are others, besides those two, I have no idea what they are for at
this point.

The Park Lamp relay has wiring colors as follows: Light-Blue, Black/Yellow,
Pink/Red, and another Pink/Red...

I don't think at this point there should be a problem with any of those.
Yours may differ from those in my '94 manual, but from what I see, the
relays control the fuel pump, Auto-Shutdown, AC Compressor, Cooling Fans,
Wipers, Starter, and Transmission.

I don't really know about the LHS door panels. I'm guessing that they would
at least be similar. Trying to remember how I took mine off... Arrrh...

Screws under the speaker grill covers, screw in "pull-cup" on the door
handle / arm rest, screw behind door latch handle. From there, lift to
dislodge panel "hooks" on trim, and at top edge of door. Watch for wiring
harnesser that are attached to everything... Door speaker is attached to
panel, NOT the door itself. Also disconnect clip for the linkage to the
door latch handle...

That's a start, just be careful so you don't break anything...

See above. I'm almost certain that the relay under the dash will be your
problem...