1997 Chrysler Concorde 3.5 Sudden Stall

I just had a rebuilt 3.5 engine installed in my 1997 Chrysler
Concorde. After only 200 miles the engine has some stalling problems.
When I'm stopped at a traffic light sometimes the engine will suddenly
stall. There is no warning that the engine is about to stall - just
suddenly stops running. Also, during those 200 miles, at idle in
drive, the engine would run slightly rough and there was a major
rattle somewhere in the dashboard. Today, I had the same type of
problem where the engine suddenly stalled. When I tried to restart,
the engine turned slowly and started, but this time the engine was
missing badly. I managed to get the car back home and I called the
auto shop to send a tow truck. When the tow truck arrived, the car
started right up and ran normally. The car is back at the auto shop,
so I'm wondering what they will say next. I've already paid close to
$3K for the engine replacement. Has anyone else had a sudden stalling
problem with their Chrysler? Thanks...

 

Right off the top I suspect a rich mixture or the timing off.
Was there black smoke coming out the exhaust when it was missing badly?

 

it possible that the crank sensor has not been properly shimed or it is
bad. see if there is a fault code stored.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

First off, pull the error codes by cycling the ignition switch 3 times
and counting blinks of the "check engine" light (you can find the
procedure at allpar.com- EVERY owner should know how to do this and it
should be the FIRST step in diagnosing any problem.)

I suspect you'll find an error relating to either the cam position
sensor or the crank position sensor. FWIW- sometimes the crank position
sensor alone won't trip a code on first-gen 3.5L engine management
systems- the computer just thinks the engine stopped and doesn't realize
that it still should be running.

 

This may not help you, but I have the exact same problem. The symptoms are
identical. In my case, the problem is caused by a bad connection at the
coil. I can wiggle the wires where they plug into the coil and I can make
it miss or stop missing. That's probably not your problem, but the symptoms
are right.

 

the egr gasketrs and tubes can creat a vac leak that will cause the car to stall

they are oin the bac of the cylinder heads and can be a pain for someone doing a
engine swap rushing thru it

 

Not true!! it isn't a carbureted engine, its fuel injected. You could take
the throttle body off that vehicle and it will run.

Glenn

 

go with the error codes....

my '96 did the same thing last year.....error code was for EGR
malfunction.......shop said the EGR was OK.........car would run great
99% of the time.....rough every now and then....and stall without
warning at a stop light.

finally got fed up and took the EGR off myself: the plastic connector
nipples were cracked - new EGR/no problems.

may not be your problem, but check the codes!

 

Thanks for everyone's help!... While the car was in the auto shop the
second time they replaced the coil pack, crank sensor, temperature
sending unit and water outlet. And to my surprise they charged me an
additional $329. "It runs fine now," the chief mechanic said.

I drove away from the shop and still noticed that the engine ran a bit
rough at idle in drive. Also, there was still a rattle in the dash
board at idle in drive. I drove the car about 10 miles towards my home
and I arrived at a stop light. Yes, the same thing happened - the car
suddenly stalled. I started it back up and arrived back home... The
next day I took the car for a thorough test drive. Same situation,
engine was running a bit rough at idle in drive. I drove the car on
the freeway and in the city. After 10 miles, again the engine stalled
at a stop light. I then arrived at a second stop light - the engine
suddenly stalled again. This time the engine would barely start and it
was missing badly. The "check engine" light was also flashing. The car
was ready to stall again, but I pulled into a residential
neighborhood, parked and turned off the engine. I waited a few minutes
and tried to start the car again, but it would not start. I called the
auto shop again to send a tow truck.

It kind of sounds like they are randomly changing parts at my expense
to solve this problem. I wonder what they will say next and how much
they will charge me again. I'm about ready to take the car back and
then try to fix it myself trying everyone's repair suggestions. These
rental car charges are killing me and after $3500 in engine
replacement/repair bills, I still don't have a running car... Hmmmm...

 

Years ago I had a similar stalling problem on an '82 Aries K-car.Lost
a huge chunk of $ trying to figure it out but eventually the answer
was....a bad catalytic converter. Something had broken loose inside
there and would periodically obstruct the exhaust flow. After engine
shutdown the exhaust pressure would dissipate and could restart. Then
it would run until the next time it blocked itself...sometime minutes
later, sometimes days later.

 

the customer is having a stall issue why does pulling off the throttle body
have anything to do with the stalling??
also based on the more info posted i would suspect a mistimed timing belt/cam
gear setup on camshaft and again check the egr operation and related tubes that
bolt directly to the bac of the intake manifolld

 

Because you said the egr gasket will make it stall, it wont, any vacuum leak
on the vehicle will make the engine rev to a higher RPM and not stall. It is
not a carbureted engine. I simply said you could pull the throttle body off
this vehicle (running) and it wouldn't stall. you could pull the EGR off
this vehicle and it wouldn't stall while running.

 

Really? With the throttle position sensor reading "closed," but the
actual throttle (effectively) open, I think you'll find that it falls
flat on its face fairly often if there's a big vacuum leak. Especially
transitioning to an idle from coasting. The MAP sensor will show high
manifold pressure and that will allow it to compensate for small vacuum
leaks fine, but if someone leaves the EGR tubes disconnected, that's an
awful big vacuum leak to expect it to compensate.

 

Check the MAP sensor connection. Not only check it but get a used one and
change it. I saw by the past a faulty plug. There are 3 wires if I remember
well, cut them about 6 inches long and solder the other one. That might be
the problem. Another symptom is back fires sometimes when you step hard on
the gaz pedal. Watch not to open your muffler with a big backfire. Good
luck.
L.G.R.

 

If there's a big vacuum leak the complaint would be vehicle does not idle
down, not a stalling problem..

 

My experience on this type of engine control system is that vacuum leaks
cause both "high idle" and stalling. The stalling results from the fact
that the controller can't make a smooth transition from running to idle
because its getting conflicting inputs from the MAP sensor and the
throttle position sensor. Yeah, you can start it and it will idle
(fast), but when you're driving it will stall about 3 of 4 times that
you pull up to a stop.

 

Not like a carburetor where the fuel is delivered at the intake. A vacuum
leak in that system would cause a very lean condition and cause the vehicle
to stall. Since a ported fuel injection system sprays the fuel directly into
each cylinder a vacuum leak would not cause the engine to stall. Take a look
at a drivability test book and look up stalling on a ported fuel injected
vehicle and see if it mentions EGR. (excluding Chilton because they are
useless)Take a mighty vac and apply vacuum to the EGR and see if it stalls.

 

No one ever said it was "like a carburetor."

It won't make it stall because of lean-out, but it CAN make it stall
because the engine managment computer is now getting inputs (throttle
position sensor says closed, MAP says high pressure) that don't match
up. The transition between operating under load where the extra air flow
is trivial, and operating at idle where the extra airflow is the
dominant factor is no longer smooth, and so there is a high probability
of a stall under that condition.

OK, let's be clear:

1) I'm not talking THEORY, I'm talking about what I've OBSERVED in this
very engine/controller combo.

2) The question wasn't about "EGR" in general, ie. driveability issues
with a sticky EGR valve or clogged EGR tubes. It was about a good-sized
vacuum leak that results if the engine changer left the EGR tube
DISCONNECTED.

 

Steve I was replying to dirty when he said a gasket leak at the EGR tube
would cause it to stall and I said Not true.

 

UPDATE: After the car was at the shop for six days on the third repair
attempt, the chief mechanic called me and said, "It runs fine now, but
it has an engine code. We replaced the crank sensor again. When can
you pick it up?" Engine code? I thought they were going to finally fix
this car. When I arrived at the auto shop they didn't charge me for
the repair this time. I wanted to talk with the chief mechanic about
this situation, but he was not there when I arrived at the shop. The
guy at the service desk gave me my keys. Then another mechanic hooked
up a code reader under the dash of the car and wrote down some letters
and numbers on a piece a paper. He gave me the piece of paper and he
said, "Thank you. Have a nice day." The paper showed the following
error code:

PO441-EVAP control sys purge flow falt

I wasn't sure what to do. Did they want me to go to another mechanic?
Or did they want me to try and fix the problem myself? I guess they
finally gave up on trying to repair the car and the rebuilt engine
replacement was unsuccessful. But, they said nothing about a refund...
I started the car and the engine was now running very rough and the
"check engine" light was on. I decided to just have the car towed back
home.

Now the fun begins... Calling the credit card companies, charge backs,
rental car charge claims, consumer agencies, small claims court,
etc... Thanks again for everyone's help. Maybe I'll have time next
month to work on the car myself...