1995 Plymouth Grand Voyager

3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a
totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This
has happened when I stop, there is a shudder and then the lack of
shifting starts. Other times after you take off from a light and let up
on the gas, there's a shudder and the shifting goes goofy again..
Sometimes if I stop, kill the engine and restart, it goes away, other
times not.

Garage has had it a driven it for days and things are fine. Often it's
weeks before the problem comes up again.

Anyone got any clues?

 

My 93 Intrepid does this too. Once it misses a shift, it seems to
continue locked in 2nd gear. I usually happens within the first few
minutes of driving. If I get more than a mile or two without it
happening, it just plain won't happen at all. It seems to happen
more when it's cold out, like below 32 degrees.

At first I thought it was low fluid. The car does have 200K miles on it
and it leaks a bit from the main seal. Not worth fixing. However now
what I think is happening is that there is a bad connection somewhere
and it 'glitches' the controller. Once that happens, I have to turn the
motor off and restart and it's usually fine.

 

Very likely is is because whoever dropped that V-8 into your Grand
Voyager didn't do the conversion right. I wonder how exactly he dealt
with the problem of installing a rear axle and changing the engine mounts
from the transverse mounted V-6 that used to be in your van to go to
rear wheel drive - since of course, a V8 block is too long to go transverse
mount.

Interesting conversion, let's have some pictures!

Now, go back and reread your owners manual and your vehicle specs
and ponder how exactly a person who can't even post the correct
engine size and type knows more than the garage in how to repair his
vehicle.

Next time, post the correct specs on your van. And, take it to the
dealer, please. If your trans acts up, it will set a code in the computer.
Your garage obviously doesen't know how to retrieve this. The
dealer does, and has the expensive proprietary scantool to do it with.

Ted

 

Ok Ted Jackass, I mis-posted as V8 when it's a V6. Too bad you couldn't
just ignore that mistake and answer the question.

But then you're a huge jackass of the highest order. I sure hope you
haven't reproduced since there's enough jackasses in the world.

 

Mine started in the summer. Just did it yesterday again. Shudderd as I
stopped and then wouldn't shift. Later, after I'd stopped at the store
and it sat for 15 mins or so, it was fine as I left and this repeats the
same pattern.

I hope someone here has a clue, other than the Ted-jackass.

 

/>

You may not care for the messenger but the message is valid. Why ask
a bunch of strangers across the globe what the problem with your
transmission is when you can just ask your transmission? Take it to
a dealer or a **very good** (not aamco) transmission shop and have the
codes read from the transmission controller. I'm not sure how long it
holds this information so do it as quick as you can after an event.

Get back to the group with the codes and you will stand a better
chance of getting some good advice.

Steve B.

 

I've had it at a dealer and unfortunately when there, it hasn't acted
up. It's like the old doctor joke, "Doc, it hurts when I've done this!"

"Is it doing it now asks the Doc?"

"No" the man said.

"Well, I can't help you then." said the Doc.

 

I forgot to say they read the computer and there wasn't any info.

 

I don't see that there's any call for that sort of name-calling. You
took it to a garage, the garage doesen't know what they are doing.
Most people would be disgusted with the garage and would be
calling around other garages for second opinions. In your case you
came to us and we will give you some advice that will help you -
but look here, you are hardly holding up your end of the bargain.
This is a self-help forum. It is considered good manners if your going
to ask advice here to at least have done a small amount of effort
trying to figure it out yourself. Your owners manual, for example, would
have explained that what your experiencing is the trans automatically
shutting itself down (AKA "limp mode") after detecting a fault. Have
you even read it? And I don't think it out of line to expect you to
know what any auto parts store is going to ask you if you were to
walk in and buy a part. Not to mention that "3.8" is molded into the
intake air plenum on your engine and if you open the hood it's
staring you right in the face.

As I said previously, you need to have your transmission scanned,
ie: interrogated by a scantool at a dealer. Such a tool will read
out error codes and also tell you a lot about the health of the
transmission.
It is very likely that your fault is a sensor failing. And the trans
computer
will have an error code set if that is happening. It is not uncommon for
people who get transmissions rebuilt at elsewhere than the dealer to
have this problem happen - because other places use aftermarket sensors
that tend to fail sooner than the dealer ones - not that the dealer ones
have that long a lifespan anyhow. I've had it happen to me twice in one
of my vans. However, I also spent the money and time to buy a scantool
and the pieces needed to be able to have it talk to my transmission so
that when it happened I could pull the error codes and know for certain it
was the sensor going out again. Economically, it would have been cheaper
to have the dealer scan it since I still haven't paid back the cost of the
tool -
but the convenience of being able to diagnose in the driveway at my
convenience and fix at my convenience makes up for it.

Of course, you can simply keep shotgunning it. Your choice. Just be
aware that the trans computer will happily throw it into limp mode
while your barrelling down the highway at 70Mph if it sees a sensor
failure. It really isn't that great on the health of the transmission to
shift down to 2nd gear from overdrive at that speed on a regular basis.

Ted

PS Same advice goes for the guy in the Intrepid.

 

Thanks. This was more the kind of reply I would have expected rather
than your rant about engine cylinders. You could have [originally] been
kinder rather than a smart-ass. OTOH, you came through the second time.

 

Well, the situation with the Intrepid is that there are NO error codes.

OK, not entirely true. It says battery failure once in a while. And it
gave
an O2 sensor error, but I replaced the O2 sensors (both of them) and the
ignition wires and the mileage went up considerably (from the teens to the
mid-20's), the surging on level road with cruise control stopped, and the
slight miss went away. The tranny still misbehaves occasionally.

Oh, the tranny NEVER downshifts to 2nd/limp mode. So far, in 3 years,
it ONLY happens when I come to a stop and start out again. It starts out
and stays in 2nd. If it starts out in first, it ALWAYS shifts fine and goes
all the way to OD. Also, it is EXTREMELY rare for it to happen more
than once per day. Almost as if the slight warming from driving at all
makes it not want to happen. And it almost always happens within
the first 1 or 2 stopsigns from starting out in the morning.

 

FWIW I was out today and stopped at the Garage and they did
scan/interrogate the trans computer which led to a solenoid problem but
nothing of the shuddering and then not shifting.

Also, the trans which it got that was rebuilt came from Chrysler with a
warrantee which was up last April and the problem started in May-June.

Oh and it's not "shotgunning" at all, those are your words. The garage
I've used since 1988 doesn't work that way and they don't do things not
indicated. That's why nothing's been done and they've driven the van for
over a day, trying to replicate the problem and look at it while it's
happening. So, if it happens while I'm out in the local area, I'll go
there while it's doing it and maybe the problem can be found.

 

Hmmm - OK, if there was a solenoid problem, then why would you
or they think it's not related to the shuddering and not shifting? I would
think it would be. Did they give you the code? Just curious - what tool
did they use?

The codes do get reset eventually so if it happens and you wait too
long to have it scanned then you won't get codes back.

Oh man that just sucks!

One other question for you on the rebuilt trans. You said Chrysler rebuilt
it -
but, did Chrysler install and fill it with fluid? Or did your local garage?
If
so, that may be the problem. These transmissions should not have any other
fluid than ATF +3 or ATF +4, preferably ATF +4. It used to be that
only ATF +3 was available from the aftermarket, but recently Chrysler
said they were going to make ATF+4 available via aftermarket.

A lot of garages fall for the marketing line of cock-and-bull from this
company called Lubegard which claims to be able to "make" ATF +4
by having the garage fill the transmission with Dexron then pouring a
carton of this lubegard shift modifier crap in the transmission. The
garages
are susceptable to this because Dexron is less than half the cost of ATF +4.

Really, with your symptoms, you got 3 possible problem areas. First is in
the eleectronics, sensor, trans computer, etc. But just about any of
that will set a code. Second is wrong fluid. It happens a LOT more
than you would believe. That usually won't set a code. Last is a
hard part failure, or bad clearance in the transmission. Those also
usually won't set a code either. So, you really really want it to set a
code!

Anytime the trans computer shifts the trans into limp mode it is going
to set an error code.

Ted

 

The code indicated the solenoid problem which is what led to it being
replaced and after that things *appeared* to be fine with the problem
gone but then weeks later it returned. I'd have to as the name of the
device they used to scan the trans.

BTW, this is the first unsolved problem I'ver ever had with them since I
began using them in 1988.

Yes, but when it first happened after the warrentee was up, they agreed
it shouldn't have happened and I think they would stand behind it. The
solenoid is not internal to the trans so that was not covered.

The garage got the trans from Chrysler with the 3 yr warrantee when I
had it done. The warrantee was why I chose this path rather than a
rebuilt which had a lesser warrantee for lesser money.

I'd have to ask if Lubegard was involved.

I've been waiting for it to act up again and stop shifting. I'm home on
disability so I'm local to them and can just head there if it acts up so
when that happens they were going to look at it again.

Are you calling the lack of shifting limp mode? As I said it shudders
when stopping OR when you accelerate from a stop and let up a bit, then
it's 3000 rpm @ 34 mph and doesn't downshift. Then it goes away for no
reason with no shudder or whatnot. Seems though like the engine has to
have been off for things to get back to normal.

I'm hesitant to go to the dealer for no other reason than I didn't get
the trans there, but at the garage who has said they'd take care of the
problem when they find it. I've left it for them to drive for 2 days and
it wouldn't do it...you know haw that sometimes goes with stuff you need
to get fixed.

BTW, while we got off on the wrong foot( or was it tire!!!) I appreciate
your comments/advice and will look some more into things.

 

Every time the key is cycled which means shut off then turned again the
trans computer gets partially reset and "gives it another try" so to speak
and attempts to operate normally till it senses another fault. I have had
mine go into limp mode which yes is 2nd gear and reverse only due to
interference from a radio tower and the fix was simply to shift to neutral
and turn the key off and back on then put it back in drive. I didn't even
have to stop the car and if you do the key cycle just right you don't even
have to recrank the engine as it is still spinning fast enough to continue
running. Now I don't recommend others try this as one time my mom was
driving and managed to hit reverse instead on neutral at 45mph but it worked
for me.

To elaborate on this "limp mode" you see mentioned here it is due to the
fact that 2nd gear and reverse are hard coded into the valve body on the
trans. The car going into limp mode is simply the trans computer saying "I
give up" and shutting down which cuts all power to the solenoid pack. To
prove this to yourself unplug the solenoid pack connector, trans computer
connector, or just pull the TCM fuse and drive the car and you will find
that all you have is 2nd gear and usually the cruise control and speedometer
won't work either along with the shift indicators if your car has the
electronic indicators instead of the old string and needle style.

 

Your welcome, sorry about jumping to conclusions in the beginning.

My only further advice is to make sure you get it documented that
Chrysler agreed the problem started under warranty.

I still think it is a sensor problem but the lack of an error code from the
transmission computer doesen't make sense. The only other thing might
possibly be a loss of electrical power to the trans computer itself - the
trans computer cannot set codes if it's not running. You did mention
they replaced the trans computer - perhaps they didn't properly clean
the contacts on the big header that plugs into the front of the computer
when they did it, or perhaps the moisture rubber guard around that
connector is leaking.

You could get a bottle of contact cleaner and some cotton swabs and
do it yourself. Or if it's water, take the connector apart and spray it
all down with WD-40.

You might also check the rubber seal that is on the top where the hood
fits against the body - if that is leaking, water pours down into the engine
compartment when it rains.

Another common area is the input speed sensor contacts. That sensor is
right under the transmission cooling oil line fittings and if those leak,
trans
oil goes down and softens the rubber connector on the speed sensor
and makes that connection get loose. But if that is the problem it will
definitely set a code in the computer.

Ted

 

I thought I'd said solenoid which is outside the trans they said.

No leaks there, I've checked.

I'll ask them to check it. The problem hasn't reoccurred for about 10
days now. It's so darn intermittent.