1991 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE 3.3 V6 Problems

My parents encountered 2 major problems in their '91 Plymouth Voyager
3.3 V6 4-spd auto while driving it to take some big stuff to a store to
return them for a refund:

1)It was running fine at first but when they accelerated from a red
light upon getting on a major road, the van stopped picking up speed as
soon as it got into 3rd gear at 35 MPH. Basically, it bucked,
hesitated. From then on, it lost speed even at wide throttle w/ pedal
floored and then slowed to 0 MPH. And the engine cut off completely. He
then put the shifter in "N" and tried to start it back up and he did.
Then he popped it back in OD but it was sputtered and there wasn't much
power. He went to a parking lot, parked it, and checked some stuff
under the hood.

2)Now...the oil pressure. They told me that while they were driving it
that day, the oil pressure gauge was reading 'nil'. The gauge was
essentially showing no oil pressure. He mentioned something about the
CHECK GAGES light being on as well.

I drove the van a week before this scenario while my car was being
fixed, and it appeared to run ok. It didn't seem to skip or anything.
Oil pressure was ok; 1/4 at hot idle and a little below 1/2 when going
down the road.
I was told to check the fluids while I borrowed it, and I did. Oil was
full, but it looked "dark" brown, or blackish. Based on the bottles in
the van, the engine is presumably run on 10w-40 oil.
Coolant, on the other hand, was wayyy down in the overflow tank. It
looked like it had pure tap water in it, and it was way below the MIN
mark. I opened the radiator cap, and I didn't see anything in the
radiator. So, I topped the system off with 50/50 water::antifreeze
ratio coolant. After I opened the hood and turned off the van to get
gas, I heard gurgling sounds within the hoses/radiator. The van never
ran hot during the time I drove it, though.

Anyway, the other day after the breakdown scenario, they got the van
towed from the parking place where we parked it at, and it's now at a
shop. They are looking at it. My dad said they might change the oil and
put a scantool on it. They should know something by Mon.

Overall, what could be going on? What do you think should be done and
what do you think could be causing the above problems?

 

I have a 94 GC with 3.3 V6 and 4 speed auto as well.

I had a problem with my O2 sensor a while back.

Symptoms: Sometimes the van ran just fine. Sometimes - especially
under load or heavy acceleration, I got coughs, sputters, back-fire /
spit-back, and other strange stuff. Worst part was none of this threw
a code in the computer!

Once a mechanic diagnosed the problem, then I was on the road again in
less than 30 min. No such problems since.

The coolant problem, that could well be the head gasket. When I
purchased the van I had it inspected. The previous owner told me had
had been topping up the coolant, so had replaced the water pump, and
that all should be OK. My mechanic spotted the leak at the back of the
engine on the passenger side of the engine compartment. I negotiated a
price reduction based on the results of the inspection, and had the
work done right after buying the van. I have not had to add so much as
a drop of coolant in 3 years.

Many balked at the idea that the 3.3 might need a head gasket, and I
must say that most don't seem to have a problem. Mine did.

I would have that looked at. It is a fairly expensive job for an older
van, but the 3.3 can make it worth it. If it is in good shape, both
the van and the engine, then get it done. When my engine was apart the
mechanic showed me just how good the engine was! You could still
see the factory scoring marks on the cylendar walls, and compression
was excellent. In reviewing the complete maintenance records od the
previous owner, it seems while he was a liitle cheap on some things,
oil changes was NOT one of them! Every 5000 km like clockwork for 8
years. Ya goota love it.

Let us know what they find with your folks van.

hth

 

i agree with newman, the 3.3 is worth the fix. armed with the info you
relayed,it's hard to say what caused the "gurgling" sound you heard.
perhaps you didn't start the engine and let the thermostat open while
you were filling the radiator and recovery tank and never got it full.
perhaps you already had a leak and that was why the coolant level was
low in the first place. who knows? the thing that concerns me is the
oil pressure. hard to say what happened with that. i'm keeping my
fingers crossed for you that it is only a blown head gasket, but to be
honest, i have my doubts. if the engine was ran very long without oil
pressure then some major "gaulding" occured to your bearings and other
internal parts of the engine. keep us posted though, because you have
really raised my curiosity.

 

COOLANT
The gurgling occured before opening the radiator itself up to check the
coolant level. I heard it after I took note of the level in the burp
tank. I talked to my dad the day after I returned the van about the
coolant loss issue, and he said that the van was bad about losing
coolant. He said that he couldn't detect visual leaks or anything but
that it was just going away somewhere.
I was, at first, wondering if it was in any way getting into the oil,
but the oil doesn't look milkshake-color or anything. Oil, as I said,
was dark brown or blackish when I checked it that night.
Anyway, the temperature was always steady the whole time I borrowed the
van. It didn't swing at all. The only awkward thing I noticed while I
drove it was that the heater output was poor. It seemed to improve some
when I got the coolant level up to snuff.
He told me before that he waits until his coolant level in the burp
tank gets below the MIN before he adds some.
Now, my dad has run this van hot at times since we had it. A couple
overheats occurred when the thermostats stuck closed. A few times, it
ran hot as well when sitting (3/4's up gauge; I was riding with my dad
those times) when the fan didn't come on. He claimed that the fan was a
super house fan and was rigged and framed to the radiator mounting
area. And then said that the wiring was run to the fan and harnessed in
such a way that it would sometimes intermittently come loose and cause
the fan to not come on sometimes. He said a while ago it still had this
problem, and he didn't think of much else to do about the fan thing.

OIL PRESSURE
Mechanics got back to us today.
They tested the pressure with a mech gauge to rule out oil sensor, and
the reading came back as 6 lbs at hot idle and at driving RPM's. They
drained the oil out and noticed little sludge drained out. They pulled
pan, cleaned pickup, inspected oil pump, cleaned pan. then they ran
engine flush w/ fresh oil. After that, they put pure fresh 10w-30 oil.

It regained some oil pressure: 16 lbs hot idle and 28 lbs at driving
RPM's

Is there really anything to worry about right now as far as internals?

The mechanics got tied up later in the day, so they didn't quite get
finished with this issue, but they said they would maybe flush this oil
out and run treatment w/ new oil again and change with final fresh oil
again to try to get better pressure (perhaps if there's "supposedly"
still residue in the passages or something). Then they said they would
drive the van afterward to diagnose the drivability problems they came
in with as well.
But. before getting off of the phone, the mechanic said to my dad not
to use 10w-40 oil in that engine anymore.

Overall, could using 10w-40 have been affected the lube of this engine
over the longterm. He's been using that kind of oil for years, I'd say.
As far as when the oil was last changed, I don't know. What are some
other things that could have caused that drastic drop in OP?
The van hasn't been driven as much in the last 9 months because we got
a Toyota for my dad that he's been driving a bit.

 

Thicker oils could gum up over time if the oil is not changed
regularly. I believe that 10w30 is the spec for that engine under
"normal" conditions. I used to live on the prairies years ago in
Canada. Since it got very cold there in the winter (-40), I did what
the manual said for that car at that time, and switched to 5w30 for
the winter. If you live in a hot climate like much of Nevada or
Arizona, than I could imagine that a higher viscosity grade might be
required. Notwitstanding all that, remember that oil changes should
happen based on miles OR time - whichever is more frequent. If your
father is using 10w40, and only changing the oil once or twice a year,
I could see how this might cause a problem over a prolonged period of
time.