'02 Intrepid Starter Grinding Flywheel

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by msean, Nov 18, 2006.

  1. msean

    msean Guest

    Hi, On cold mornings sometimes my 2002 Dodge Intrepid starter will
    grind the flywheel. The engine will give a cough that makes me think
    that maybe the spark is advanced too much for a cold start. Is that
    possible? The dealer has worked on it twice in less than a year and
    both times says he put in a new starter. After the last "new starter"
    it ground the flywheel the next two mornings. I heard of someone with a
    new Chrysler who had the same problem and a dealer who couldn't find a
    solution. Is this a common problem with Chrysler products?
    Thanks, Mike
     
    msean, Nov 18, 2006
    #1
  2. msean

    Some O Guest

    No, but I'm not sure I understand your symptoms.
    Are you saying it just keeps trying to start, but even though it's
    turning over it doesn't start. If so I wouldn't suspect the starter.
    My '95 Concord starts in a second or two.
     
    Some O, Nov 18, 2006
    #2
  3. msean

    msean Guest

    The engine starts OK, but every so often, when cold starting, the
    starter and flywheel will make that high pitched grinding sound that
    you would get if you turned the key when the engine was already
    running. After a second or two the engine will then start. It's like
    the starter goes in and hits the flywheel instead of engaging it.

    Anyone that I've described it to says, "Oh, the starter's hanging up",
    but supposedly the dealer has put in two new starters, with no luck.
     
    msean, Nov 18, 2006
    #3
  4. msean

    Bill Putney Guest

    As the owner of two LH cars and participant in two LH-specific forums,
    I'd say it certainly isn't a common problem.

    Which engine do you have?

    You might post on the www.dodgeintrepid.net forums - also try a search
    there on some good key words like 'starter' and/or 'flywheel'.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Nov 18, 2006
    #4
  5. msean

    Greg Houston Guest

    Was the work performed under a warranty/service contract? If not, you
    have the right to request the old part. (Although if the shop isn't
    honorable, who knows what old part you might receive). This could help
    you determine what is/isn't replaced.

    I haven't heard of those symptoms. Perhaps there is something wrong
    with the Bendix not releasing properly? Does it sound like the engine
    tries to start, but doesn't start completely right away while the Bendix
    is still engaged?
    (apologies to Honeywell or Knorr-Bremse or whoever holds the Bendix
    trademark these days)

    Which engine does your car have?

    I understand that the 2nd gen LH cars (at least the 1999 model year, and
    I assume all model years) are designed not to allow one to engage the
    starter by turning the key after the engine has started. I've never
    tested this feature, but I recall reading about it in the owner's manual
    or the video that came with the car, and assume it is software in the PCM.
     
    Greg Houston, Nov 18, 2006
    #5
  6. msean

    msean Guest

    The engine is a 2.7. This morning it cranked a second or two, made the
    "starter grinding the flywheel" sound, then started after another
    second or two. I never let up on the key so the starter was turning the
    whole time. Does it sound like maybe there's teeth missing from the
    ring gear?

    I bought it used from the dealer and bought a service plan at the same
    time. The dealer claims to have put in two new starters under the
    service plan. Do you think they are putting me off with this starter
    story so they don't have to go to the expense of putting in a new ring
    gear? Trusting car dealers isn't my long suit.
    Thanks, Mike
     
    msean, Nov 19, 2006
    #6
  7. msean

    Greg Houston Guest

    I'm not sure what is causing the problem by your description. It sounds like
    the dealer isn't diagnosing it either. The service contract is presumably to
    fix the problem not to replace parts, so I would just tell them that the problem
    still exists exactly as before and it is up to them to diagnose/fix it. Its
    best to do this now rather than later. Is the service contract issued by
    Daimler Chrysler, the dealer itself, or a third party ? If it is by D-C you
    could try using another dealer.

    If it is indeed stripped gear, I would expect something to happen every time the
    starter gear touched the bad flywheel gear section. Perhaps something is
    causing the starter gear to retract or interrupts power temporarily to the
    starter during cranking?
     
    Greg Houston, Nov 19, 2006
    #7
  8. msean

    Ken Weitzel Guest

    Hi...

    Just another thought... wonder if it's possible that the
    starter isn't installed correctly? If, for example, one or both
    of the bolts were loose and had backed out a little, the starter
    wouldn't be squarely lined up and the gears wouldn't mesh nicely?

    Worse thought; what if one or both of the mounting holes was
    stripped?

    Just a thought.

    Take care.

    Ken
     
    Ken Weitzel, Nov 19, 2006
    #8
  9. msean

    Steve Guest

    Not only that, it is almost impossible on ANY Chrysler product, because
    the transmission housing and starter case are machined to set the pinion
    depth, unlike Ch*vrolet starters that have to be shimmed to work right.

    I wonder if you have a damaged ring gear, or perhaps its the starter's
    own overrunning clutch that is "chattering" under load, inwhich case the
    dealer just fibbed about replacing the starter.
     
    Steve, Nov 20, 2006
    #9
  10. msean

    Steve Guest

    If that were the case, I'd expect it to make a racket EVERY time that
    spot on the gear went past the starter. It would also be really easy to
    spot ring gear damage by getting it to "grind," letting go the key, and
    then removing the starter and inspecting the gear through the starter
    mounting hole.

    I now suspect the starter drive clutch is not holding solidly when its
    overstressed, and the "grinding" is actually the overruuning clutch
    chattering. The fact that it grabs and goes after a second or so would
    tend to agree with that, but if that's whats going on it will eventually
    tear itself up enough that it won't turn the engine at all.
     
    Steve, Nov 20, 2006
    #10
  11. msean

    who Guest

    As you have seen here your problem is puzzling and one needs to be there
    to diagnosis it.
    It doesn't matter what the dealer says he has done if the problem isn't
    fixed.
    I suggest you get another opinion locally. Another garage or at an auto
    club.
     
    who, Nov 20, 2006
    #11
  12. msean

    msean Guest

    The service plan is from Daimler Chrysler so I could take it to another
    dealer. Do you know if their plan will cover repairs made at a non
    Chrysler repair shop?
     
    msean, Nov 20, 2006
    #12
  13. msean

    Art Guest

    The noise may not be what you think. We had it in a 99 300M. The car had
    auto climate control. The noise occured sometimes when the are had been in
    recirulate air mode when turned off and back on.
     
    Art, Nov 20, 2006
    #13
  14. msean

    msean Guest

    The problem took a sharp turn for the worse today. When I tried to
    start it all that I could hear was the starter spinning. No engagement
    of the flywheel or any other sounds, just the spinning of the starter
    motor. I'm going to have it towed to the dealer tomorrow and hope for
    the best. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help.
    Mike
     
    msean, Nov 20, 2006
    #14
  15. msean

    Bob Shuman Guest

    Let us know. Might be a good thing that it broke for good since it should
    be a lot easier to diagnose.

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Nov 20, 2006
    #15
  16. msean

    Greg Houston Guest

    The contract will spell out the details. If it allows you to use non DC dealers, it
    probably requires pre approval from DC itself. This is probably only granted if you
    break down far away from a DC dealer or there is some other problem. Again, check the
    contract.
     
    Greg Houston, Nov 21, 2006
    #16
  17. msean

    Greg Houston Guest

    Hopefully they'll be able to fix it now. Please write back what happens!
     
    Greg Houston, Nov 21, 2006
    #17
  18. msean

    who Guest

    Very good, you now will get a real fix.
    we'll all be interested if they found any gears on the flywheel. <:)
     
    who, Nov 21, 2006
    #18
  19. msean

    msean Guest

    I just got it back from the dealer and the mechanic says it was the
    solenoid wire that wasn't sending enough juice. He says that the reason
    it started OK on warm mornings but not cold ones was that the engine
    cranked a little bit longer when cold. He thinks the starter was
    cutting out and then back in while the flywheel was turning. I've
    started it maybe 15 -20 times so far with no trouble. I'm keeping my
    fingers crossed.
    Thanks to everyone for your help. Mike
     
    msean, Nov 21, 2006
    #19
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