1991 Dodge Spirit front sway bar links?

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by WRITETOgregAT, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. I have a 1991 Dodge Spirit. I took it into the shop for a new fan belt
    a couple months ago, and they told me I also needed new front sway bar
    links. I decided not to believe them, so I didn't have them put in the
    new links.

    Afterwards, I thought about it, and I wondered if I should have had
    them do the work. My Dodge has had steering problems for a while -- it
    takes a lot more effort than it should to make it steer straight,
    especially at highway speeds. And I started wondering if this was
    because of the sway bar links.

    So I took it into a different shop. I had them do an oil change, and I
    specifically told them to look for any problem with the front sway bar
    links. What they said really surprised me. They said that (1) my 1991
    Dodge Spirit isn't even supposed to have front sway bar links; (2) even
    if there was a problem with front sway bar links, they wouldn't expect
    it to affect steering; (3) they tried driving it, and saw no steering
    problem; and (4) they also said they looked at the whole front end and
    didn't find anything wrong.

    It's weird that the second shop would be wrong about this, because it's
    in their interest to find things to fix. But they were certainly wrong
    about #3, since there is a steering problem (though it's less
    noticeable at slow speeds).

    So I'm left with these questions:
    1. Is a 1991 Dodge Spirit supposed to have front sway bar links?
    2. If there's a problem with the front sway bar links, what symptoms
    would I notice as a result? Will it make the car harder to steer
    straight?
    3. What's a fair price for fixing the sway bar links?

    Thanks to anybody who can help me with this.

    Greg
     
    WRITETOgregAT, Apr 13, 2006
    #1
  2. WRITETOgregAT

    kmatheson Guest

    I don't believe that a Spirit has sway bars, unless it is the ES model.
    I have a 1990, and in the near 16 years that I have had it, the struts
    have been replaced twice, and the left ball joint twice too. The struts
    were done last month, and really smoothed out the ride, and got ride of
    several *clunks* that were there.

    -Kirk Matheson
     
    kmatheson, Apr 13, 2006
    #2
  3. WRITETOgregAT

    Ed.Toronto Guest

    It's quite possible that you could use new sway bar end-links.
    No, I don't see any much reason for bad sway bar links to cause
    wandering at highway speeds. Bad sway bar links will show up in odd
    noises--clunks, squeaks--when you try to corner at any decent pace and
    the car starts to lean.
    This is hopefully terminology and not ignorance. The sway bar "links"
    in the K-derivatives are rubber blocks in the control arms. The
    control arms are the things at the bottom of the car that connect the
    wheel spindle assembly to the body. On the underside of the control
    arms, you will see a steel bar, approximately 1" in diameter. It ends
    in a rubber block that is held in a channel in the control arm by a
    bolted-on cap. This rubber block can become deformed or the hole can
    wear out. Then the sway bar can move around and make noise.

    The traditional GM sway-bar end links that I am familiar with are
    indeed a different design, where a long rod runs vertically from a hole
    in the end of the sway bar to the control arm. Maybe this is where the
    confusion is coming from.
    Have you checked your tire pressure? How are the tires wearing? If
    the tires are good and inflated to spec, the next step would be to get
    a front-end alignment.
    Yes, rubber blocks.
    Answered above.
    Each link is about $15 if I recall. Your Spirit should have the
    cast-iron control arms if I have my years right, in which case I don't
    see the job taking more than half an hour from putting the car on the
    hoist to driving it away. If I'm wrong on the control arm design and
    they are the stamped-steel kind, and your car is pretty rusty, it can
    take a while longer. They should not charge more than an hour for the
    job in any case. (I can do it with hand tools and without a hoist in
    that time.)
     
    Ed.Toronto, Apr 13, 2006
    #3
  4. That would explain the difference of opinion, so I guess you're
    probably right.
    I haven't noticed this, but I will pay more attention in the future.
    Okay, great, that settles that.
    I'll certainly check the tire pressure, but this has been going on for
    months and months, both before and after I got new tires and got them
    aligned last summer.
    I must admit I don't know if there is a difference between a "tire
    alignment" (which I had done last summer) and a "front-end alignment."

    After talking with my dad about this, I gather that my next step is to
    take it in to the best alignment place in the city and have them look
    over it.

    Basically, this has all been very helpful, so thanks a lot! It leaves
    me with a couple of questions, though.

    1. Is there a difference between "tire alignment" and "front end
    alignment"? Pardon my ignorance.

    2. If not, what should I do about my steering problem? It is getting
    really bad. I feel I have no choice but to take it in to the best
    alignment place in town and say "Look, I got the tires aligned last
    summer but it still won't drive straight. Do a front-end alignment and
    look for worn parts to replace." But it depresses me how much this
    might cost. (Of course I'll check the tires before I do this.)

    3. How important is it to replace the rubber sway-bar links? Is this
    something I need to bother with?

    I guess that's it, then. Thanks again to both of you who replied.

    Greg
     
    WRITETOgregAT, Apr 14, 2006
    #4
  5. WRITETOgregAT

    Bill Putney Guest

    Used to be a tire alignment and front-end alignment were synonymous.
    Now you get a 4-wheel alignment, also called a tire alignment (front end
    alignment alone is obsolete).

    The best way is to have the shop agree ahead of time that they will give
    you a 'before' and 'after' printout of your aligment measurements. If
    the shop refuses, find another shop. Without that, you are at the shops
    mercy to diagnose the problem correctly (requires competence and honesty).

    You can post the printout numbers for interpretation. The 'before' and
    'after' numbers will tell you if the problem you are presently having is
    related to the alignment as it existed then, and if the problem still
    remains, was corrected by the new alignment, etc. That way, you know
    how to attack the problem (i.e., is there some suspension part that is
    worn or bent that needs to be replaced to bring your alignment into
    spec., or is it a tire problem, did they align it correctly, or did they
    fudge something that was borederline, etc., etc.).
    Mainly just for noise related issues and handling on curves. As Ed
    said: Sway bar issues do not affect whether it steers straight or not.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Apr 14, 2006
    #5
  6. You realise, of course, that the machine operator can rather easily
    make the "Before" and "After" printouts say anything he wants, right?
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Apr 14, 2006
    #6
  7. WRITETOgregAT

    Bill Putney Guest

    I'm not surprised. But that would take some pretty blatant dishonesty -
    that's a different dishonesty than not being able to bring certain
    parameters into spec. and just not saying anything to the customer
    ("What the customer doesn't know won't hurt them"). For the trouble of
    having to explain something that doesn't make sense, maybe they would
    just break down and focus on fixing any problems, straight-talking the
    customer, and truly bringing things into spec. Kind of serving the same
    purpose as auditing in the financial/business world - at least they know
    someone is paying attention - "do I want to risk getting caught
    red-handed in case this customer really does know what's going on".

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Apr 15, 2006
    #7
  8. In case anyone is interested in a follow-up, here are the alignment
    figures:

    http://www.gregboettcher.com/alignment.jpg

    (They said they didn't fix the rear toe because it wasn't bad enough to
    be worth the money to fix.)

    Unfortunately, after an alignment and after getting one of my tires
    balanced, the problem still remains. Balancing the tire helped a bit,
    but not a lot.

    The confusing part is, when I originally took the car in for the
    alignment, they said I had a bent rim. Then, later, when they balanced
    the tire, they said they could find no bent rim, even though they
    admitted the car was driving as though it did have a bent rim.

    I guess I'll have to do two things:

    1. Take it to another shop and see if it does have a bent rim. I really
    think it must.

    2. Get the front tires replaced.

    No questions this time, I'm just posting this in case anyone is
    interested.

    Greg
     
    WRITETOgregAT, May 14, 2006
    #8
  9. WRITETOgregAT

    Bill Putney Guest

    According to the printout, your front toe was pretty far out before this
    latest alignment. That could have caused some irregular wear problems
    on your front tires due to scrubbing. Probably new tires is the only
    solution to the steering problem. The rear tires would not have been
    damaged by that (the rear toe is out, but not too bad). Try swapping
    tires front-to-back - if the problem changes then it is the tires
    causing the steering not to be straight.

    BTW - you may or may not have a bent rim, but that would not cause it
    not to steer straight. Don't get distracted by the bent-rim question -
    wait until you get the other problem straightened out.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, May 14, 2006
    #9
  10. They did say the tires were worn around the outside, so I guess I'll
    replace them soon.
    What problems would be caused by a bent rim? It isn't so much that the
    car veers off to the left or right, but you have to keep moving the
    steering wheel back and forth to make the car drive straight when going
    45 mph or more. At the shop they made it sound like this type of
    problem could be caused by a bent rim.

    Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate it. I'll get the tires
    replaced soon, and then maybe I'll check into the rims as my next
    priority.

    Greg
     
    WRITETOgregAT, May 14, 2006
    #10
  11. WRITETOgregAT

    Bill Putney Guest

    Then they are incompetent.
    You're welcome.

    No - bent rim will not cause that problem. Bent rim will cause
    shaking/vibration that cannot be corrected with balancing - just like an
    out-of-round tire. I still think your tires (damaged by the previous
    out-of-alignment condition) are the problem. Again - to satisfy your
    curiosity until you can get some new tires, try swapping front and rear
    tires to see how that affects the problem.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, May 15, 2006
    #11
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